Talk:A DAngerous GAme/@comment-174.112.96.186-20130317032412/@comment-108.181.251.179-20130317051209

Okay first of all, I cracked up when you said "Alcoholic A". Lol, A has been drinking a lot lately this season. I mean if A has a problem, he/she needs to talk about it, not drink over his/her feelings. I suggest A taking AA sessions.

Okay, now back to the real stuff. I'm sorry, but as horrible as this sounds, the Toby is a double agent/loves Spencer theory seems perfect on the outside, but once you dig deep into it, you really notice all of the flaws with this theory, and how nothing add's up.

1. First of all, about the first lie thing, you need to consider that Marlene's tweets are way more cryptic then it seems. For example, at that point, what was Marlene's definition of a "lie". You might consider a lie to be hiding the truth, but at the literal view point, it simply means you say something that is deliberately contradictory to your experience of the given event or idea. For example, if you broke your mother's vase, but she never found out that you did it, nor did she ever ask you if you did it, techincally, you didn't lie. You didn't go up and say to your mom: "mom, I didn't break your vase". You simply hid the truth, not nessecairly out right lied. So it could be the same thing with Toby. It's not like before 2x07, he ever went up to Spencer and said: "I'm not A". If he did, that was lying, since he is A. But he didn't, all he did is simply hide the truth from Spencer by not saying anything. Which techinally, isn't literally lying.

2. Yes, he did cry in the ally. But how does that prove he is not evil? He was most likely crying because everyone in town hated him, which, because technically the liars caused all of this to Toby, would actually fuel up Toby with anger and vengence even more.

3 . " what he said about meeting Ali that night, thanking her and watching her leave with some guy was true". In my opinion, Toby's excuse for that tattoo and meeting with Alison was complete bull shit. First of all, I don't see how September 1 marked the day Toby was finally free from Jenna. Jenna was clearly blinded on the fourth of July of that summer. The fire works, the American flags all over the place, etc.... So I don't see how September 1 has anything to do with Jenna. He was freed from her months before that. Secondly, I just noticed this while typing this, but Toby was lying about meeting Alison that night when he told Emily. Why? Well in 3x17, Alison visits Toby in Juive after the Jenna thing. So obviously, Toby was in Juive for at least that whole summer. How could he meet up with Alison. It's contradictory. And the only way is for him to sneak out (which is impossible in Juive), but the fact that he is sneaking out also clearly points to his bad actions.

3. " he didn't plan on kissing Spencer (when she says she wasn't expecting that he said, "Me neither"),". Okay, notice how that whole motel scene with Spoby was because Toby led her there in the first place? Apparently, Spencer believed that Jenna would be meeting up with A in the room 214 of that motel, and concidentally, Toby just so happens to plan on checking in the same motel. And notice how Toby was the one who gave Spencer the braiille thing leading to Jenna's motel room in the first place? Yet at the same time, notice how they never actually saw Jenna ever go into that room? I believe that whole thing was a setup by the A-Team to get Toby close with Spencer. I don't think Jenna ever checked into that room.

4. " everything he said to Emily about their friendship was true and  he meant it when he told Spencer he loved her". Yeah, well, who said A can't love a liar? Mona loved Hanna dearly. Their friendship was also genuine, yet Mona was still A. Right?

5. ""A" severed his break lines and removed the screws from the scaffolding as punishment for falling in love with Spencer then guilts Spencer into breaking up with him for good and it isn't until Mona's locked up that he tells her pretending not to love her was the hardest thing he's ever done, like he had to convince the A-Team he couldn't care less about her." Well, about the scaffolding. That whole incident also seemed to be planned. First of all, if someone were to ever fall from a building of height and of such manner, they would be way more injured then having a broken arm. This happened in 2x17. Now in 2x22, we see Toby drive up with his motorcycle to the school during the dance (this was confirmed by Marlene), and both of his arms are on his handle bars. Meaning that at that point, both of his arms were healed. Now being the nerd I am, I counted the time period between each episode, and the time between 2x17-2x22 would be no more then a few weeks. Well, it takes at least 6-8 weeks for a broken arm or leg to heal, which leads me to believe that Toby didn't even break his arm. But how would that not show up on his medical exam, you say? Well that leads us to Wren. Remember that he was treating Toby after the fall. There are many clues to him being part of the A-Team. He could have just fake diagnosed him with a broken arm.

6. "he tells her pretending not to love her was the hardest thing he's ever done, like he had to convince the A-Team he couldn't care less about her.". Once again, didn't Mona love Hanna. So if Mona loved Hanna, why didn't the A-Team give her any crap? So I don't think the A-Team  gives a shit on whether their members love the liars or not, as long as they're not helping them. And it's not like Toby was feeding Spencer answers before the scaffolding incident. That hockey stick (oh yeah which Toby convinently found) was probably to frame Jason (and the A-Team covinenently wanted to frame Jason at that point as well). In no way did it feed the liars any answers. Plus, the hockey stick didn't even kill Alison. It was the shovel.

7. "Mona did all but two things to the liars in the first two seasons, one of which (Emily's massage) Toby couldn't have done either, because he was with Spencer. " Well, he clearly didn't give the massage, but that other thing Mona didn't do was kill Ian. I think it's safe to assume that Toby probably killed Ian. So this obviously means that Toby is capable of murdering someone. No matter how much of a dick Ian was, Toby took the life of someone with intention of doing it without any justifiable cause. And people say that was to save Spencer, but that has nothing to do with Spencer. First of all, the reason A needs Ian dead--the reason A even framed Ian in the first place--was because he was an N.A.T member, and whatever it is, N.A.T clearly knew something about A that A wanted to keep a secret (I think N.A.T knew about the existance of a DiLaurentis twin). And let's just say that A/Toby, wanted to save Spencer? Have you ever come to think why? Well, most people would say that he cares about her, but here is probably the real reason: first of all, yes, A doesn't want any of the liars to die, or at least die at the hands of someone else, but only because A wants them to stay alive in order to continue torturing them. Techincally, if one of the liars die, they are free of A. A doesn't want that to happen. A needs them to stay alive only because A wants to continue tormenting them. Other then the Aria-drug incident, everytime A has attempted to kill a liar was because it was in the heat of the moment, not at the A-Team's command (Mona running over Hanna because Mona thought that Hanna uncovered her identity, A trying to kill Emily in the greenhouse because A thought that his/her cover would blow any second...).

8. "

Lucas drugged Emily and took the photo of all of them at the grave (he had the pills and he's a photographer)

Red Coat and an "A" with long brown hair dug up the grave (Emily's memory in Dead To Me confirms this-you can see the hair fall out as they're digging)

Alcoholic A seems to be the one who stored the body, ran Caleb's mom off the road and hacked into Radley's computer system allowing Mona visitors. "

First of all, to counterargument, this whole point is pure speculation. You're assuming that Alcoholic A (lol) and the Second A/Toby are two different people but without any proof, clues or evidence. Mona is the first A. Logically, she did everything as A up to the her reveal. Toby is the second A. With the same principle, it only seems more logical that Toby did everything in the first half of the third season (and a bit into the second half). Toby was the one escorting Mona in and out of Radely, so it makes sense that Toby hacked into the database allowing Mona to have visitors in the first place (I'm pretty sure A was planning to visit Mona immediately after he flies back to Philly), which of course means that he was the one in Montecido and tried to kill Caleb's mom, and about the alcohol part, he was probably also the one who hid the body.

9. "The person who drugged Aria and killed Garrett was another "A"/Queen of Hearts-if it was Toby we would've seen his face when Mona handed them the pills/bullets. And I think the Queen of Hearts/Caleb clone were two people we don't see on the train (sans mask). If I had to guess: Mona and Wren."

Okay, this is the one point I agree with. I'm positive that I heard a British male saying "you lied to me" when pushing the box.

10. " I also don't think he trapped Spencer in the steam room either; that would be too obvious." At this point, we are entering "Third "A"" territory. Toby's term as A was long over by this episode.

 11. "So if Mona, her little helper Lucas and Alcoholic A did all of that what did Toby even do, other than slashing Paige's tire and scaring Lucas? Besides, for all we know he could've thought that was Mona-she was released from Radley the same night and he doesn't seem to know about the other team members. Also, judging by the look of shock on Toby's face when Spencer catches him in 3x16 and then the look on Mona's face at the end in his loft, she obviously set him up. Maybe his leaving town was his way of turning in his A resignation. After his "death" I saw this theory on tumblr saying maybe the note Emily got, "Toby is no more -A" doesn't refer to him literally dying, but to him no longer being an "A". And the hydrangeas he bought on the lam were put where Spencer was sure to see them; clearly he still loves her (the first lie he told was in 2x07 and he told he loved her so much in 2x03). I think it's important to note that his first lie was out of protection for Spencer (told her dad the hockey stick meant nothing to her, when it did). So what if all his lies since then have been to protect her? Sometimes you have to hurt someone to help them. "

So once again, you are simply assuming in the first place that Toby did none of the crap as A in season 3A, so the first part is false. And yes, Mona obviously did set him up. Clearly, they were planning the reveal in the first part of the episode in the A-Lair, and clearly, both of them were on board with the plan. But this was the plan along. To make Spencer crack, and phsycollgically torment her. And about Red Coat puting that note in Emily's car. If Toby really was a double agent and isn't A, why the hell would she want the liars to know that. Why would she want to relieve Spencer, ruining the whole plan to psychologically torment her. And about the hydrangeas, he bought those to put on his mother's grave thingy. They weren't intended for Spencer in anyway. And back to the hockey stick. Remember, the hockey stick did nothing but make the liars think that Jason is guilty, and I'm sure A would want the liars to do that with yet another N.A.T member to kill him off later on. And also, the hockey stick wasn't the weapon that killed Ali. It was the shovel.



I'm sorry but this whole double agent theory makes no sense. Just some additional points to add on here:

- Notice how Toby was really pushy with Spencer. How he was demanding to know everything concerning the liars' investigation with Alison and A? Or so called "answers". And remember how in 2x14, he was trying to stop Spencer from leaving (so she can meet up with the others and A/Mona at the greenhouse), how he kept demanding to know why she was being a dick to Emily, and physically grabbing her arm so she doesn't leave the house? At first, you would think that Toby was trying to act all protective, but especially the time 2x14, it really brings the "A" out of him. H