Talk:Oh, What Hard Luck Stories They All Hand Me/@comment-25584522-20150201002258/@comment-25937133-20150201010240

I agree with you, to an extent, about the "victim" defining the violence. However, you have to see that some things can be subjectively interpreted as either violent or not; while other things are just objectively violent.

In some countries, it is perfectly acceptable both legally and morally for a man to beat his wife. The women, knowing no other way, go along with it because it is the only culture and moral system they know. This doesn't mean that them getting hit is not violence. It's considered an internationally recognized human rights abuse.

Now, given that I'm pretty sure this thread is about the "Marlene botox comments argument" that seems to have blown up here, I would just say this - you say it's up to the "victim" (which by the way is a word that already implies that the person has been mistreated). In this case, the "victim" would be Marlene and none of us have any idea what her opinion is on any of these comments. So even by your defnition you can't rule out that it is bullying.